You just might be a Secretard if…

What are Secretards? Why the blind robotic followers of The Secret and its idiot child The Law of Attraction (LOA).

Note: I think the pronunciation should be Sec-REtards (the “sec” rhyming with the first syllable of “secretary,” and the emphasis on the “re” of “retards”) – although I’m open to discussion.  Edit:  It's been suggested the pronunciation should be "Secrete-Tard," in that they are secreting retarded arguments.  I'll leave the final decision to the individual reader. 

Most believers use fallacious arguments, but the Secretards are the most illogical, immature, vindictive and gratuitously offensive commenters I’ve met in all my years debating with believers on the Web. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t mind people with differing views who are prepared to defend those views, even vigorously at times. And I don’t even object too much to believers who sometimes get a little rude, or who occasionally use bad language. We can all get carried away at times in debates, especially on the Web. But the Secretards take this to another level in their complete inability to acknowledge contradictory arguments, combined with a nastiness and vindictiveness that is the equal of the anti-vaccination groups. With the degree of vitriol they spit, you have to wonder if they aren’t a little too invested in something that perhaps, deep down, they know isn’t true.

The purpose of this post is to summarize the fallacious arguments used by the Secretards. Admittedly some of these arguments are generic to all woos, but the majority are Secret specific. So with apologies to Jeff Foxworthy and his “You just might be a redneck” shtick, and to Orac and his You just might be an altie post, I give you, you just might be a Secretard if... Here goes:

1. If you repeatedly state that skeptics are negative people, you just might be a Secretard.
2. If you claim that the burden of proof is with the skeptics to prove The Secret is not valid, you just might be a Secretard.
3. If you start your comment by saying “skepticism is healthy” and then spend the rest of the comment, and numerous comments that follow, arguing that skepticism is unhealthy, you just might be a Secretard.
4. If you claim the LOA “always works, every time, no exceptions,” you just might be a Secretard.
5. If you claim the LOA is a scientific law just like gravity, and yet cannot produce one citation showing the LOA is a scientific law, you just might be a Secretard.
6. If you misrepresent what the laws of gravitation actually say and ignore all explanations about how the laws of gravitation are different from the LOA, you just might be a Secretard.
7. If you say you never said the LOA always works, every time, no exceptions, and yet you still support The Secret, you just might be a Secretard.
8. If you state that when the LOA doesn’t work for someone it’s because it was IMPROPERLY APPLIED (bonus points for using ALL CAPS as in the example), you just might be a Secretard.
9. If you state that God (or the universe) answers all prayers (or requests), but sometimes the answer is "No", you just might be a Secretard.
10. If you equivocate by arguing that being positive, confident etc will make people react more positively towards you, will tend to make you more successful etc. and then sneakily use this as an argument in favor of the “thoughts become things” and “it always works every time” woo version expressed in the film, you just might be a Secretard.
11. If you state that the observer, in the act of observing, changes the observed, and/or reference Schrödinger’s Cat as though it proves something, and/or parrot any other poorly understood Quantum Mechanics, you just might be a Secretard.
12. If you try to support the above by copying and pasting definitions from quantum mechanics sites you just found with Google in an attempt to show that you really do understand quantum mechanics, you just might be a Secretard.
13. If you state that for hundreds of years nobody could prove the presence of atoms, electricity or radio waves, or that people used to think the Earth was flat, or that for years we couldn’t get to the Moon, as if these were actual valid arguments in favor of The Secret, you just might be a Secretard.
14. If you claim The Secret is a radical paradigm shift that skeptics are just not ready to hear, you just might be a Secretard.
15. If you cite What The (Bleep) Do We Know!?, in all seriousness, as a reference, you just might be a Secretard.
16. If you state this cannot be “New Age Garbage” since the technique has been practiced for thousands of years, you just might be a Secretard.
17. If you state that we only use 10% (or some other randomly chosen percentage) of our brain, you just might be a Secretard.
18. If you later claim you meant the “mind” not the “brain”, you just might be a Secretard.
19. If you fail, when asked, to produce evidence that we only use 10% of our brain mind, although this was your claim, you just might be a Secretard.
20. If you state “recently absolutely everything I’ve put my focus on has come to pass,” and then as evidence for this produce a detailed list of your recent successes in getting a better job, better health, better sex etc, you just might be a Secretard.
21. If you state that a little girl who was brutally raped attracted the rape because in a past life she was possibly, herself, a rapist, you just might be a Secretard.
22. If you Suggest that the six million Jews who perished in the Holocaust attracted their fate, and/or the ones practicing The Secret were the ones who survived, you just might be a Secretard.
23. If you ask skeptics “what contributions have you made to society” as if this were a valid argument for your position, you just might be a Secretard.
24. If you state that skeptics are being skeptical for skeptic sake (whatever that means), you just might be a Secretard.
25. If you ask “where did they say that you can solve a traffic jam just by thinking about it?” although this was part of the film, you just might be a Secretard.
26. If you say that if thoughts cannot create reality this means we can’t own or possess anything that is man made, as if you thought this argument actually made any sense, you just might be a Secretard.
27. If you claim that this concept of the universe has flown over skeptics’ heads, you just might be a Secretard.
28. If you call skeptics sad, sad sacks, a sad lot, unsuccessful, pessimistic, incomplete, frustrated, little boys, pitiful, losers, dumb, misfits, negative, should have beens, drones, sad (again), who “deserve each other”, or any combination of the above, you just might be a Secretard.
29. If you include all of the above insults in one long content-free rant after all your arguments have been debunked, and right before you flounce off for good with the final line ‘I’m gone and I leave you with your angst forever’, you just might be a Secretard.
30. If you post silly, childish, vulgar comments on this blog under the names of several other regular commenters, as though this tactic somehow strengthened your position, you just might be a Secretard.
31. If you start your own pseudo-blog where you complain that skeptics don’t allow you free speech to comment exactly as you wish, and yet on this “blog” of yours you don’t allow anyone to comment at all, you just might be a Secretard.
32. If you state that skeptics are negative thinking people (yes, I know this is a repeat), you just might be a Secretard.
33. If you continue with any of the above arguments even after they have been debunked three, four or five times the same day in the same thread, you just might be a Secretard.

The comments are open, in case I missed any.

Comments

[Theriomorph]

Go, Skeptico!

If you have ever opened a discussion of "The Secret" with any variation of the phrase "I only share this with people who are ready to transform their realities," you might just be a Secretard.

In fact, if you have ever used any variation of the phrase "we create our own realities," you might just be a Secretard.

If you have done any of the things listed here, you might just be a cult-leader-wannabe in dire need of critical thinking skills.

Great to laugh about this - been focused on the social-control implications of "The Secret" in my own writing about it, and the dynamics are grim on every level. Obviously, I was getting too negative about this species we're in and manifesting all these idiots. Something Very Bad might have happened. Thank you for saving me from myself, Skeptico.

[AR]

The pronunciation might be improved. That's how I pronounced it in my head when I first read it, and it sounded to me like a reference to secretaries who are retarded. Starting the word with a 'see,' as in 'secret,' would make it more recognizable as 'secret-tard,' and not 'secretary-tard.'

[Tom Foss]

I like "sec-RE-tard," because it keeps "secrete" in there. It's the best of both worlds.

I'm digging on "secretin" too, though.

Anyway, I'd say:
If you treat a classic bar joke as if it might be evidence for your philosophy, you might be a Secretard.

If you claim that "no one even knows what electricity is," and use that to support your "scientific law," then you might be a Secretard.

If you think that thoughts create reality and the universe doesn't care about your feelings, but actually it's what you feel that determines your reality and the universe responds more to stronger feelings, or no the universe responds to the power of thoughts and positive thoughts are more powerful than negative thoughts, and magnets are somehow involved, you might be a Secretard.

If you believe in a secret philosophy that has been suppressed for millennia, but also believe that it was known to and recorded by all the great thinkers of history, and is practiced by the richest and most powerful people in the world, and also a bunch of would-be philosophers, theologians, and poor scientists, but it's still a "secret," then you might be a Secretard.

If you can say "like attracts like" and compare that phrase to the function of a magnet in the same sentence, you might be a Secretard.

If you think it's profound to say "You have good feelings and you have bad feelings. And you know the difference between the two, because one makes you feel good, and the other makes you feel bad," you might be a Secretard.

If you can say "there are no rules, according to the universe" regarding the amount of "stuff" that can be provided to the universe, in a video promoting a "scientific law" that is often compared to the actual scientific law of gravity, directly contradicting the law of conservation of mass, and you see no apparent conflict here, you might be a Secretard.

If you can cram this much contradiction, inaccuracy, and absurdity into a 20-minute segment of a much longer film, and think that this segment will still be effective as a promotional device, you might be a Secretard.

[techskeptic]

Im gonna ask this here too....

Why does this crap piss us off so much? It infuriates me that thousands (millions?) of people flock to this crap. But when you try to describe how it hurts the value of real science, blames the victim and breeds ignorance to people who either believe in it or simply defend it as something that makes people feel better, they just look past it.

Why does this crap make so angry? Beucase as long as this shit continues we will never, as a society or a species cast of the shackles of religion and actually focus our brains and resources toward actual problems. how about you?

[Sachman Bhatti]

Although I enjoyed What the Bleep Do We Know, I completely cracked up reading your article. I thought WBDWK was cool when I first saw it because I took it as simply philosophizing about quantum mechanics' implications and didn't take it as some kind of mandate, or fact. Just interesting and neat that these scientists were using their metaphysical pondering as well as their scientific understanding. Blending philosophy with the things they had learned.

The Secret however went way too far, and it was no longer entertaining.

Hilarious post, keep it up.

[Ophelia Nicholson]

Well that confirms it-I am a Secretard. I have to admit hilarious post- I'd laugh at Secretards if I wasn't one already.
I think whether you are a Godretard (blind robotic followers of God emphasis on retard and sounded better in my head)or whatever retard you are- It all boils down to beliefs-What beliefs help someone to strive for more, achieve more, for someone it may the belief in God guiding them, for others it may be the Secret.
For me it has nothing to do with science or anything else- It is simply about a belief that makes me realize hey you are mean't to be great,and in the end everyone is entitled to one.
There are portions of the Secret that I don't agree with but the overall message is that you can change your life and that is the message that makes a diffrence for me.

[t3knomanser]

Here's something ironic for you- I honestly wouldn't know anything about _The Secret_ if not for your blog.

Of course, I've moved in circles where that belief was held as Fact and Law and questioning it was the worst kind of unorthodoxy, and it only demonstrated how you had not yet achieved any kind of enlightenment.

I love poking those sorts of bastards in the eye.

//But I'm really a very sad person.

[Tom Foss]

Just interesting and neat that these scientists were using their metaphysical pondering as well as their scientific understanding. Blending philosophy with the things they had learned.

The problem is that they had to compromise their scientific "knowledge" to do so. None of the quantum physics in "What the Bleep" was scientifically valid, it was all buzzwords, common misconceptions, and intentional misrepresentations.

There are plenty of weird and interesting implications, scientifically and philosophically, of Quantum Physics. You don't need to bastardize the science to explore those implications. Unfortunately for the Bleepers, not one of those implications is "you create the world with your thoughts." And so their philosophy is old-age solipsistic reductionist bullshit, and their science is bankrupt.

The most amazing thing I've encountered in the past week was seeing Carl Sagan quickly and off-handedly take down JZ "Ramtha" Knight in "Demon-Haunted World." He essentially debunked "What the Bleep" eight years before it came out. Freakin' astounding.

[amie]

Great Beautiful Love it. I am really happy that the Secret has helped some by enabling them to live in a fantasy world but it really pisses me off when they talk about everything being positive even horrible crap like disease--There is nothing positive to me that my sister has a degenerative incurable disease. And she didn't give it to herself by not being positive. And just thinking about it positively isn't gonna get congress off their asses to get moving on stem cell research so we can get a cure for it.

[Jimmy_Blue]

If you claim that words used to mean something they didn't, with no proof, and claim the Dead Sea Scrolls prove this and the LoA, you just might be a secretard.

If you claim that thinking you are fat makes you fat, in spite of the contradictory evidence provided by bulemics and anorexics, then claim when this is pointed out you meant only in their minds, you just might be a secretard.

If you refuse to answer what should be simple questions if the Secret is true, even when every pre-condition you have laid down for answering them is met, you just might be a Secretard.

[Theriomorph]

With this paragraph – “If you think that thoughts create reality and the universe doesn't care about your feelings, but actually it's what you feel that determines your reality and the universe responds more to stronger feelings, or no the universe responds to the power of thoughts and positive thoughts are more powerful than negative thoughts, and magnets are somehow involved, you might be a Secretard.” Tom Foss manifested my coffee coming out of my nose. Some day I will learn to look away from the screen before I take a sip.

To techskeptic – “Im gonna ask this here too....Why does this crap piss us off so much? It infuriates me that thousands (millions?) of people flock to this crap.” I’ve been looking at this lately. If Skeptico doesn’t mind a Secret-related link, and you’re interested in musing further, come on over and talk about it. narcissism, abuse of power, and magical thinking: why “The Secret” is actively destructive, rather than just plain stupid (Transcripts of the Larry King interviews with the Head Secretards and lots of links, too, under the Secret-inspired label ‘The Department of Social Control.’)

To summarize my POV, it pisses us off because it’s a dangerous absence of critical thought with real and painful consequences to real people in pain. People flock to it by the millions because they have a desperate need to believe they have control over their experiences. It works because ‘The Secret’ exploits the most basic and effective tenets of both cults and pyramid schemes.

Sagan’s book “The Demon Haunted World: Science as Candle in the Dark” is so good. His point there – that in addition to needing to feel in control, people also have a basic need to feel awe and wonder – is relevant to “The Secret” phenom, too, I think.

[madaha]

It pisses me off because it shows a willful disregard for actual knowledge and critical thinking. AND it paints people who respect knowledge as negative. I resent that. If I can just use another example: flipping by the channels, I came upon Hillary Swank discussing her new movie The Reaping with Jimmy Kimmel. She was saying how her character in the movie goes around finding scientific explanations for what seem to be "biblical" occurences. She said, "these people ACTUALLY exist". (said in a very disparaging way) Kimmel said "They sound like a bunch of party-poopers". I had to turn the channel. Why in our culture right now, does having respect and an interest in science make you an a**hole?? Why is believing that god is sending plagues to punish us more fun than finding out what actually is going on? The Secret is part and parcel of this ridiculous anti-intellectual phase we seem to be going through. That's why it burns me, personally.
thanks, madaha

[Rockstar Ryan]

If you Suggest that the six million Jews who perished in the Holocaust attracted their fate, and/or the ones practicing The Secret were the ones who survived, you just might be a Secretard.

You might also be a piece of human excrement that deserves fornication with an iron staff.

[wyo]

If you run a two day infomercial on your massively popular national television show, give glowing approval for a product without considering the implications, then realize that some women are actually stopping their cancer treatments because of what you said, then take it all back by saying that what you meant to say was that The Secret is simply ONE way to help yourself, that it is really just about positive thinking, and shouldn't take the place of traditional medical procedures, you just might be a Secretard.

[mope]

Thanks to The Secret I've finally been able to make all of my brutal rape fantasies a reality!

And my victims? Well - they should have thought positive, like me! That's self-actualisation in action!

Thanks The Secret!

[Theriomorph]

wyo, did Oprah backpedal? I missed that.

[madaha]

I mentioned the Oprah thing on an earlier thread - it was really lame. It wasn't a full retraction by any means, just a very tentative way to cover any possible liability.

[wyo]

http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200703/20070326/slide_20070326_350_103.jhtml

Oprah's backpedal link.

[Arren Frank]

Great job Skeptico, and nice additions by the rest of you as well.

Tom Foss, as usual the content of your post was par excellence (e.g., "You don't need to bastardize the science to explore those implications.") Nice.

[Nes]

There are portions of the Secret that I don't agree with but the overall message is that you can change your life and that is the message that makes a diffrence for me.

You needed The Secret for this? What was wrong with The Little Engine That Could?

[Theriomorph]

Thanks madaha and wyo. Yes indeedy, that's lame. Here's the relevant section, from Oprah's site, in case anyone else is curious:

"What I believe about the law of attraction, I want to clarify it," Oprah says. "I want to say it's a tool. It is not the answer to everything. It is not the answer to atrocities or every tragedy. It is just one law. Not the only law. And certainly, certainly, certainly not a get-rich-quick scheme. [Editorial insertion: eh?] The law of attraction is a tool that can help you decide what you want your life to be, and then begin to help you focus on making the best choices through action to create that life."

(This to a woman who is going to use the principles of 'The Secret' to manifest her breast cancer going away instead of having the LUMP REMOVED. What's the matter, Oprah, did the inevitable consequences of this stuff just occur to you?)

Nes' Little Engine That Could comment almost got me to repeat the earlier Tom Foss nose-spray manifestation, but I was thinking positively when it happened so I averted disaster.

[S E E Quine]

` OMG!!! My study skills teacher made us watch a clip from The Secret! It didn't have any weird quantum physics things in it, but now I see why it seemed so new-agey.
` Also I see why my teacher was irritated whenever I tried to explain to her why her feet felt cool when she went firewalking.

` You know, this also reminds me of someone I know who thinks quantum mechanics proves that he can fly like Superman.
` And THAT reminds me that there was this old guy (I wrote about it on my main blog) who jumped out of the nursing home window tonight, making his big escape! (But not quite, because our neighbor caught him.)
` Don't think he was a Secretard, though, just senile.

` Maybe that's what's happening to these people, they're attracting senility!

` BTW, I also wrote a critical post on What The Bleep and someone said 'Why don't you get an education? Go lick your girlfriend!'
` (I'm not attracted to those, thanks!)
` SO, if you try to prove you're right by telling someone to lick their girlfriend, you just might be a Secretard!

[The Rev. Jenner J. Hull]

"And Skeptico steps up to the plate for the 0-0 pitch. The Skeptics lead by triple digits at this point and the Secretards have yet to score a run."

"Just goes to show, Jim, simply thinking 'grand slam' don't make it so."

"Too true. Oh, and what's this? Skeptico is calling his shot! Sweet Mammy's Biscuits!"

"Now look at him! He's batting one-handed! Is he... Is he closing his eyes? Oh, this is going to be embarassing for someone."

"The wind-up, and the pitch!"

"Crushed it! Walk-off home run for Skeptico! And that's going to be a nice souvenir for someone on the International Space Station!"

[Amy Alkon]

Suggestion from a writer sometimes in the business of making up words:

"Secret-tard"

Otherwise, it looks like you're criticizing retarded secretaries.

[Cosmic Connie]

Excellent post, Skep (and great comments, everyone else).

S E E Quine wrote:
` SO, if you try to prove you're right by telling someone to lick their girlfriend, you just might be a Secretard!'

I've had more than one Secret fan tell me my problem is that I need to get laid. And one friend of Joe Vitale who calls himself the Seduction King said my problem is that I don't feel like a woman inside. He said that this happens to be his area of specialty, but unfortunately he has a girlfriend so he can't help me. In the same post he told me that my problem is that I have not come to terms with my inner child, whom he calls "Little Connie." So either there are several people inside me who are causing problems, or he is sort of...well...Secretarded!

Anyway, I really enjoyed this post and the comments. Although I have nothing to add to the "you might be a Secretard," I'll do you one better by referring an actual 'tard to you. If you haven't heard from him already, you may soon. Look out for a guy who calls himself "Nabru," an acronym for "New Age Brilliance Rapidly Unfolding." He has chosen to share his brilliance on my blog and I told him he could probably hold his own on yours as well. :-)

[Dennis]

To Techskeptic
This pisses you off because somewhere someone is sitting in a chair, feet on their desk, cigar in mouth, counting the millions rolling in. While most real scientists work tirelessly and anonymously on small projects that lack funding or glitz and when they finally produce results the "oprahs" of the world couldn't give a shit.

[Matt]

Beautiful post Skeptico, i've been debating secretards on a facebook site, wisely or not, and have gotten some pure gems of nonsense, including EVERYTHING on your list. You're in for a good laugh, but i'm sure you've heard it all before,
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2222488891&ref=mf

[Belinda]

Nice post Skeptico. I just have to vent my frustration. I'm a manager of a small support team and one of my staff members actually tried to suggest in our last team meeting that a good team building exercise would be for us all to watch "The Secret". I almost burst out laughing in her face, but I managed to keep my face straight when I suggested it wouldn't really be a good idea. Now maybe I should forward this link to her....

[Caren]

Thank you! Thank you all!!! As a deep believer in The Secret, the law of attraction, and the idea that we are all connected as one unlimited source of energy I would like to take this opportunity to thank you! This website in an epicenter of thought around which so much energy in directed towards The Secret. I know that with your continued help this energy will help spread the word of The Secret even faster so that one day every person can live a peaceful life, connected with his/her inner, higher self. "What you resist, persists."

[Andy]

It's these people and their ilk that make me want to become a hermit. No more 'tards!

[Big Al]

Errr.... you're welcome, Caren.

[Bronze Dog]

Because we all know: Advertising the unethical, nihilistic behavior of Secretards makes them more popular.

[TheProbe]

Personally, I do not like "Secretard" because it demeans developmentally challenged people.

Secretions is much better.

[Tom Foss]

This pisses you off because somewhere someone is sitting in a chair, feet on their desk, cigar in mouth, counting the millions rolling in. While most real scientists work tirelessly and anonymously on small projects that lack funding or glitz and when they finally produce results the "oprahs" of the world couldn't give a shit.

That, and the fact that it's obvious that these people have no scruples, no conscience. Any one of us could toss together some newage bullshit, write a book, start a quasi-religion, and become millionaires. But we have ethics that tell us to not do that, and instead to fight against those who do. It's not hard to do what Deepak Chopra or Joe Vitale do, assuming you have nothing to stop you from doing it.

Thank you! Thank you all!!! As a deep believer in The Secret, the law of attraction, and the idea that we are all connected as one unlimited source of energy I would like to take this opportunity to thank you! This website in an epicenter of thought around which so much energy in directed towards The Secret. I know that with your continued help this energy will help spread the word of The Secret even faster so that one day every person can live a peaceful life, connected with his/her inner, higher self. "What you resist, persists."

Blah, blah, blah. "Because you're talking about the Secret you're attracting it to be true/you're attracting more people to believe it." Sounds like you're attracting some circular reasoning there, Caren.

By the way, if what you resist persists, then why did the Nazis fall? After all, lots of people resisted the Nazi regime, and they aren't persisting. The United States spent almost fifty years resisting the USSR, and they certainly haven't persisted. I guess it's just another case of the "Secret"-based aphorisms being selectively applicable.

[Jimmy_Blue]

Caren:

Thank you! Thank you all!!! As a deep believer in The Secret, the law of attraction, and the idea that we are all connected as one unlimited source of energy I would like to take this opportunity to thank you! This website in an epicenter of thought around which so much energy in directed towards The Secret. I know that with your continued help this energy will help spread the word of The Secret even faster so that one day every person can live a peaceful life, connected with his/her inner, higher self. "What you resist, persists."

If this is irony, great, discount what is written below.

Perhaps you should learn what the secret is, before believing in it. It seems to me that by the standards set forth by the secret itself, and its 'tards, that the negative energy that we are throwing in the secret's direction might actually be hampering it.

You know, like worrying about traffic jams causes them. Or negative energy causes negative things.

I have to admit even my depressingly cynical view of humanity's general intelligence has been surprised by what the secret has attracted here.

[Marti]

Gosh, I'm flattered that a portion of my comment made such an impact as to be repeated and denigrated. LOL

I hold no ill will towards any of you boys. I know that you are taking repeated pot-shots at this topic because it's good for business. As you said, no other topic had brought you this kind of traffic. Play it for all it's worth, sugar. Ride those coattails! Peace and joy to all of you.

[Bronze Dog]

What really annoys me is that I'm essentially an optimist, and people like the Secretards are slowly beating it out of me. Woodom, to me, looks like a massive hub of villainy, apathy, defeatism, solipsism, cynicism, nihilism, and lots of other really nasty -isms.

If I had to make a comparison between skepticism and wooism:

Skepticism = Star Trek: The essential message is that science can solve all our big problems and open up new wonders.

Woo = Zardoz: Lots of stuff thrown together in a incoherent mess that almost seems to revel in its absurdity.

[Bronze Dog]

In this case, I keep coming because I can always expect more stupid trolls who "cleverly" avoid discussing the issue and implicitly or explicitly making a big deal about how clever they are for talking about something other than the issue, and thus find more material for my Doggerel series. I come for Skeptico's no-nonsense posts and snark. I stay for trolls trotting out cliche spins and subject changes.

I've heard it all before, but sometimes its hard remembering which bits of doggerel I haven't covered, yet.

So, Marti, how exactly did your post contribute to the defense of The Secret?

[Rockstar Ryan]

BD:

I know how you feel. I actually took a long hiatus from blogging (you remember that, right?:) because these A-holes just wore on me; we can't win, right? But with each entry I made on the new blog (more so the evidence-based articles than the opinion articles) I felt that someone might read it and question themselves, just like I did about 7-8 years ago thanks to people like Bob Carroll from Skeptic's Dictionary and of course our version of a prophet.

But as long as Secretards like Marti and purveyors of woo are out their spouting bullshit as truth, there needs to be people to call them out on it; keep them honest. It also helps to keep me sane knowing there are like-minded people who would rather wipe their butts with a $20 bill than spend it on any kind of woo-woo.

To all my skeptical friends - don't let these A-holes get to you. Like Randi says, history will recall that there were people living in 2007 that did not believe in magic, and wanted society to be reality based so that we could move forward rather than be stopped in our tracks.

[/pat on the back]

P.S Marti - How's the traffic on your lame "LOL IMAKE FUN OF SKEPTICO" site? One surge when we all went to make fun of you and now no one cares, right?

[Marti]

So, Marti, how exactly did your post contribute to the defense of The Secret?

I never posted a “defense” of The Secret. I stated a personal belief that sometimes when a person prays, or “asks the universe” for something, the reply is, “No”.
That statement was used in this post:
Point # 9. If you state that God (or the universe) answers all prayers (or requests), but sometimes the answer is "No", you just might be a Secretard.

P.S Marti - How's the traffic on your lame "LOL I MAKE FUN OF SKEPTICO" site? One surge when we all went to make fun of you and now no one cares, right?

I did not build a website to parody this site. You have me confused with someone else.

[Rockstar Ryan]

*Apologizes to Marti*

You will forgive me though if your arguments seem to run together.

[Rockstar Ryan]

*Apologizes to Marti*

You're right, I did. Sorry Marti my comments are sometimes rushed here @ work.

I'm teh stoopid.

[Marti]

That's OK - I am a surprisingly easy-going woo.

:)

[wyo]

Marti

I'm glad you're enjoying the fruits of the secret. I was wondering about something, though.

What was it about The Secret that caused you to believe that it's a workable explanation of the way things are?

I worry that, in a ironic twist, it's the "scientific" explanations that seal the deal for many people. That science is somehow behind and in line with this idea makes it all the more appealing. It's one thing to believe in prayer for prayer's sake, but to have prayer get the stamp of "science" is pretty powerful stuff and helps explain why this has taken off so quickly.

Many people I've talked to effectively say, "Well, it seems to work for me, and it's working for a lot of other people, and there is a scientific explanation for it, so I believe it." Then I say, "What scientific explanation?" and they say, "The LOA," and I say, "What's that?" and they say, "A scientific law, like gravity" and I say "What?," and they say "There's a lot out there that science can't explain, and it's all about quantum mechanics and energy and stuff that isn't fully understood yet." I have no idea if the scientific angle had any effect on you, Marti, but I thought I'd throw it out there. If it was something else, I'd like to hear what that thing was.

I ask because I'm genuinely interested, not to bash anybody.

Thanks. Looking forward to hearing your response, Marti.

[madaha]

I was reading about fads of the 70s last night, and discovered there was a huge cult of the Secret back then! The cult was EST, and they didn't call it the "Secret" - they called it "It". hilarious!! Apparently they tried to cure world hunger by *imagining* an end to hunger. Way to be proactive.

[Marti]

What was it about The Secret that caused you to believe that it's a workable explanation of the way things are?
I am not a die-hard, this-is-the-one-true-way believer. I think a lot of The Secret is hype. I do not believe all of the so-called science that is sited as the explanation. I am rational enough to know that any data can be twisted and interpreted to suit the whim of the person trying to use it to make a point.

The key point of your statement, "Many people I've talked to effectively say, 'Well, it seems to work for me, and it's working for a lot of other people, and there is a scientific explanation for it, so I believe it'." is, "It seems to work for me" That's where I am.

I am not a scientist. I am not an evangelist for The Secret. I do not sell or promote it. I don’t own a copy of the DVD or book, but I have read the free information that is available online. I have tried positive thinking and concentrating on improving certain aspects of my life, and have seen improvement. I don’t know why, but it did happen. Would these things have happened regardless? There is no way to know. That’s the rub with trying to apply logic to faith and belief. I understand that it makes it very easy to scoff, and say, "There is no proof that these things happened because of your faith". That is true, yet, they happened.

I am merely explaining my personal experience and belief, not trying to convince anyone to try it or even to believe me. Just offering my perspective.

[Doyle]

The reason it bothers people here is that when one claims to be able to be their very own Santa Claus we realize that they will then be deflated when they find they were on Santa's bad list that he checked twice. Damn if he hadn't checked it twice, I'd be on easy street.

To Marti -- positive thinking is one thing, but the narcisstic delusion that each mind creates reality is setting people up for a long fall if they are so inclined to do fall for it at all.

What I see is people taking the " positive thinking " aspect of this and ignoring the rest of the mantra.

I wonder how many " secret people " have a closet full of infomercial bullshit they don't know what to do with.

[Jimmy_Blue]

Marti,

Why exactly is it a surprise to you that positive thinking and working to improve your life helped improve things for you?

I hold no ill will towards any of you boys.

Please, try not to sound so churlish. And sexist. And patronising.

I had at least expected a little more from you based on previous posts. Guess that'll teach me.

I know that you are taking repeated pot-shots at this topic because it's good for business.

Yes of course, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with trying to debunk something that could be dangerous, and is monumentally stupid. Could it?

Ride those coattails!

Oh the irony. Just like the purveyors of the secret have you mean?

[madaha]

Right! why assume the skeptics are boys? I'm all woman! But anyway, isn't it funny and frustrating that we never learn from the foibles of the past? I mean, of course, the Secret is rehashed garbage, but to learn that we already processed through a huge, similar fad in the 70s is pretty embarrassing, isn't it? I mean, if the Secretards had read about this EST thing in the 70s, they'd think it was rather sad, right? That's why understanding the past will always help us in the present. I guarantee, in a couple of years, this will be OVER, and there is going to be a huge glut on the used-book and video market with this stuff, and the Secretards, understandably embarrassed, will never admit they were part of it.

[wyo]

Marti

Thanks for the response. I really appreciate your willingness to share your perspective.

From what you said in response to my post, it seems to me that you have a fairly informed perspective and don't really need The Secret, since you seem to understand that it was created mostly for hype and money and doesn't have it's roots in any type of science.

Why not just try and live a positive life and do good things for yourselves and others, and just leave the hype behind? Why associate yourself with something that has so many glaring shortcomings? Why not just be a decent person, roll with the punches, and find your life gifts when you can?

You just don't seem like a guy that needs a "Secret," but, then again, maybe you do.

Again, thanks for the response.

Wyo