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June 11, 2009

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I find it telling that Stern finds the the time to mention Nietzsche seven (count them) times (why?) but apparently doesn’t have ten seconds to put earth is four billion years old into Google and find out how we know the age of the Earth.

Telling, but not especially surprising.

after having just ligated my nth PCR reaction into pCS2+ and transformed some bugs picked the colonies grown the minis digested the minis run the gel etc etc etc i can indeed attest that most scientific "rituals" are tedious to the nth degree [ ;) ] and most people would rather do anything else except "perform" them. with the exception, of course, of the post-seminar beers and pizza.

I wonder if Stern regards receiving financial advice as being like religion too? There's ritual (the Ritual of the Statements and Receipts, the Ritual of the Tax Return, etc), there's the impenetrable mystery, the edicts from on high... I guess my accountant is a High Priest of The Church of Finance.

When priests can put man on the Moon, or send a message to computer users around the world, or cure a serious ailment at a specified time - using prayer alone - I might take note of the similarities it has with science.

"But trust is not faith..."

I love it.

He has incorrectly blended ritual with procedure. While they could be viewed as very similar the difference lies in the end result. A ritual does not produce anything save for the happy fellings of the faithful. A procedure produces a tangible product.

Being a fan of the Bad Science blog I am totally unsurprised that a journalist fundamentally misunderstands how we arrive at a scientific consensus.

When priests can put man on the Moon, or send a message to computer users around the world, or cure a serious ailment at a specified time - using prayer alone - I might take note of the similarities it has with science.

Well, of course we didn't go to the Moon - it was a hoax. And God/Jesus/Thor/Odin/Shiva talks to people all the time. Finally, people will always believe that prayer cured whatever ailment someone had no matter the medical treatment they had; in the end goddidit and these people are so close minded nothing could convince them otherwise.

Dunno, sounds like something a bleever would think...

All Tom Stern ahs done is showcase his ignorance, a virulent ignorance at that. It is virulent because he uses his ignorance as though it were knowledge (or the ignorance of Nietzsche as though it were knowledge).

As David Basset says, not at all surprising when coming from a journalist. What happened to that golden age when journalists learned about subjects before reporting on them? Maybe it never existed...

But trust is not faith, and trusting experts in areas where we are not experts, is not religion.
Exactly!

The difference between trust and faith is something science-is-another-faith advocates fail to grasp.

In reality, the “rituals” of science (which are not “rituals”, but procedures), since they are performed for a reason, are further from religion that the rituals of baseball etc.

Skeptico, when will you finally learn the difference between than and that?

Much like doctors' stupid adherence to chemotherapy rituals in the face of obviously homeopathically treatable cancers.

Way to equate the value of a stupid ritual (negligible or negative) with scientific method (overwhelmingly positive).

...I can't figure out if the above comment is sarcastic or not...

:-)

Thanks - typo fixed.

But trust is not faith, and trusting experts in areas where we are not experts, is not religion.
I agree this is the crux of the matter. The problem, as Stern inadvertently illustrates, is this distinction isn’t self-evidently obvious to many non-scientists. The question is: who do you consider an “expert?” Someone who has spent years studying the matter? By that standard, Jenny McCarthy really is an expert on autism. (Put down the pitchforks – I’m using this as a negative example!) Someone with the right degree? There are plenty of quacks out there with degrees, not all of them from diploma mills.

A better answer might be “someone who does real science.” But that presupposes that you understand the scientific method well enough to distinguish good science from junk science. Without that understanding, it does look – from the outside – a lot like faith.

IMO, a lot comes down to better explaining science as a process – and a self-correcting one at that – rather than just a collection of facts.

I think the trouble with the article isn't so much the author's lack of scientific understanding, but the way he deals with the issues from a totally egotistical perspective. He hasn't bothered to really deal with what he saw. He relates it to his knowledge of Nietzsche because that's what really interests him, and his mood on that particular day. It all goes by without touching him.

Ken Ham has come up behind him and screwed him up his intellectual butt, and he just shrugs it off. He's obviously smart enough to understand what's going on, but is just too lazy to think it through.

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