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June 09, 2005

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Wow, great Circle!

Very good job with this Circle!
Thanks.

I concur, A++!

Great carnival! Thank you.

(BTW, youmade the same mistake I did a couple of months ago - Walloper is a girl!)

Very nice, thanks!

why is goomba's post in the skeptics' circle? it just sounds like a pathetic attempt to laugh off the military's torture of random civilians.

the skeptics' circle seems to be degenerating into the "right-wing humor circle." this doesn't increase its credibility with me.

It's making fun of religious idiocy. The Koran is just a BOOK.

Great Job Richard!

On the right-wing humor point: considering the current U.S. administration's aversion to or active sabotage of recent scientific thought, it should come as no surprise the right-wing comes off looking like fools when critical reasoning skills are brought to bear on their conclusions.

Skeptico wrote:
"It's making fun of religious idiocy. The Koran is just a BOOK."

I have to disagree. The whole point of Goomba's "satire" was to discredit news reports of Koran desecration. It didn't make fun of religion at all. It was right-wing propaganda, pure and simple and had nothing to do with skepticism. It was also not funny in the least.

I too was surprised that it takes 5 days to become a homeopath in the US. That's 5 days longer than it takes in Australia, where you require no license, education, training or experience to become a homeopath, naturopath, herbalist etc.

of course the koran is just a book. so is the bible, etc.

the point is that PEOPLE are being tortured. if you find that laughable, you're morally degenerate. if you think it's not true, you're totally credulous.

Dave;

Re: the skeptics' circle seems to be degenerating into the "right-wing humor circle.”

Get some perspective. It was one post out of 30. Even if this is “right wing humor”, 3.3% of the posts hardly makes it the "right-wing humor circle” now does it? No it doesn’t. So don’t be stupid.

Secondly, people are being tortured, but “mishandling the Koran” isn’t torture, is it? No. So I am not laughing at torture, am I? No. Nice straw man though.

Dave and Dean:

To suggest that someone is “mishandling” the Koran presupposes there is a correct way to handle the Koran, which presupposes the Koran is something special – ie the sacred word of the invisible daddy in the sky. It is ridiculous that this is even news, considering what else is going on, and it is only news because of religious idiots who think their book of myths is more important than human life. That is why “mishandling of the Koran” is a valid subject for a Skeptics’ Circle. And subjects can be treated seriously or humorously. And I’ll spell it out for you again, it is making fun of religious idiocy, not of people being tortured.

Skeptico,

I am an atheist, and I agree completely that the belief that the Koran or any book can be "holy" and therefore mishandled is ridiculous. However, there are millions of people in this world who do believe so, and they can be driven to commit mass murder by such perceived disrespect to the book they believe is holy. Any cavalier attitude such as yours and Goomba's (and apparently the US military) can have dire consequences. Therefore, news reports of such disrespect, even actions which seem trivial to us secular types, are legitimate. Goomba's piece was ignorant and not funny and had nothing to do with skepticism.

You agree completely that the belief that the Koran or any book can be "holy" and therefore mishandled is ridiculous, and yet you think making fun of this ridiculous belief is ignorant and has nothing to do with skepticism. I’m afraid I disagree completely – exposing ridiculous beliefs is exactly what skepticism is about. Sometimes with humor sometimes seriously. If you don’t think it was funny then that is your personal taste. But why do you think this subject is off limits? What do you think skepticism is about? And if there are limits on what we are supposed to cover, where is that limit and why?

I never said it was off-limits. I just think that is was out of place in the Skeptic's Circle. Goomba's piece was not ridiculing the belief, it ridiculed the news items as if Koran abuse was trivial and inconsequential. The skepticism he was expressing was whether the news items were legitimate. He wasn't promoting religious skepticism, he was trying to score political points.

The koran piece was hilarious. Just as hilarious as that bullet or bomb that finds a "coaltion" soldier in retaliation for religious desecrations. Even skepticism won't stop that bullet.

Of course, I laugh at all religious beliefs. Which is why I think that "piss christ" was a stunning piece of art.

In a way, I can see the Muslims point. Our office-holders lied and inflamed our own population with fantasies of "weapons of mass destruction". But we cry foul if they use false stories to inflame their own populations.

Dean:

Re: I never said it was off-limits. I just think that is was out of place in the Skeptic's Circle.

What’s the difference between “off-limits” and “out of place”?

Re: Goomba's piece was not ridiculing the belief, it ridiculed the news items as if Koran abuse was trivial and inconsequential. The skepticism he was expressing was whether the news items were legitimate. He wasn't promoting religious skepticism, he was trying to score political points.

That’s your opinion, it’s not mine.

Thanks for including my post in the last Skeptic's Circle. I am, however, a bit skeptical about the ability of some of my critics' ability to define skepticism.

I am skeptical about the sudden pompous fervor over supposed disrespect shown the Koran.

I am skeptical about what I consider false accusations of mistreatment and torture at Gitmo.

And, yes, my humor is that of the political Right. Why? Because my core beliefs fit well into that camp. I was not aware that Conservative commenters are not allowed the application of scepticism.

Please, feel free to oppose my politics, but please don't attempt to redefine what is clearly my skepticism over claims from the Left.

Respectfully,

Nickie Goomba

nickie,

skepticism and willful ignorance are two different things.

You are correct, Dave. Make a concerted effort to shake that ignorance.

I agree that a copy of the Koran is just a book, but if it's deliberately 'desicrated' in front of people who are known to consider it 'Holy' with the intention of tormenting them I would find that repugnant. Not because it's the Koran or Holy but because the act was intended to torment. Tormenting people because they're 'bad' doesn't excuse the 'badness' of such tormenting behaviour even if it's popular. What that popularity says about the capacity of people to inflict suffering whilst maintaining a sense of moral superiority would be a good subject for skeptical analysis.
Ken

For unknown reasons, Justin has removed all traces of the AURA compilation.

Fortunately, I managed to save a full copy before it was removed. If people want it, contact me at SkepticReport.com.

Not that the AURA compilation is worth much; Justin freely admits that he would rather accept faulty data than no data at all. He also deliberately leaves out data that shows that an admitted coldreader can outperform a psychic. One can wonder why.

If anything, The AURA compilation serves to remind us all how this sort of endeavour should not be carried out.

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