Via Orac I learn of David Kirby’s strange but boldly deceptive piece in the Huff Post Tuesday.
You see, Kirby has a problem. He has to explain why the current autism figures haven’t “declined by 2007” as he claimed they would due to removal of thimerosal from vaccines, but he can’t admit it’s because thimerosal doesn’t cause autism. So how does he get out of this mess of his own making? Tricky one. Well, his response is quite brilliant in its imagination. Get this - he redefines what autism is. Yes, according to Kirby, all the “higher functioning” autistics (ie the ones that are not declining in number), are not really autistic. This increasing number has to be taken out of the total, so that the total isn’t increasing any more. This leaves just the real autistics (ie the ones poisoned by vaccines):
I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
Get it? These are the ones poisoned by thimerosal, not the increased numbers with Asperger's, etc. Wow! Probably the most blatant case of moving the goalposts I’ve ever seen. But you really have to give him some credit for thinking out the box. Quite inspired.
Of course it’s nonsense and as well as Orac, Kevin Leitch, Autism Diva and Autism Vox take it apart in more detail.
Kirby even has a new name for his newly defined not-autism- if-it-hasn’t-declined syndrome:
Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say, "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
Yeah, good one Dave. I’ve got one to describe what you seem to be suffering from: "Disorder Enabling Nonsensical Interpretations And Lies", which we could call D.E.N.I.A.L. And I've got a great slogan too: "It’s not just a river in Egypt".
Which is not to say, of course, that the world wouldn't be better off if he were drowned in such a river in Egypt.
Posted by: Infophile | January 05, 2007 at 03:37 PM
I think Kirby would have been better off talking about the fact that mercury is still finding its' way into fetuses via the mother's flu shot.
The higher functioning, alleged autistics were simply poisoned with less mercury. As is the case with children with ADD, it's also easier to cure these people with chelation.
Posted by: Offit | January 06, 2007 at 08:36 AM
Yeah, and this magical "mercury poisoning" is such a special condition that significantly reduced exposure to thimerosal does not reduce the numbers. Once again we see that special brand of "thinking" beloved by pseudoscientists: if there's any chance at all that you just might be right, even as the evidence mounts against you, you absolutely have to be right. I guess we just have to have faith, for thimerosal works in mysterious ways.
Back in the real world, I could have sworn that Foresam's response was deadpan, exaggerated mockery until I saw that it was from him. Those straws he's grasping at are getting ludicrously thin.
Posted by: wrg | January 06, 2007 at 08:53 AM
I think Kirby would have been better off talking about the fact that mercury is still finding its' way into fetuses via the mother's flu shot.
And does this supposed extra source of mercury conveniently make up for all the thimoseral that isn't used on the children's shots, Foresam? Are you saying no mothers took flu jabs until thimoseral was removed from MMR, etc.?
The higher functioning, alleged autistics were simply poisoned with less mercury. As is the case with children with ADD, it's also easier to cure these people with chelation.
If chelation is so good, can we see evidence of these "cured" autistic kids? Why aren't all the doctors not enthusiastically pushing out EDTA like aspirin? Could it be that the combination of toxicity and nugatory evidence of effectiveness puts them off?
Posted by: | January 07, 2007 at 02:51 AM
No Name;
The MMR never had mercury in it. Nobody seems to know how much mercury and when it is administered is vital to cause autism. It seems, from the numbers that the decision to poison babies as soon as they were born, before they had a BBB was important.
You can read about cured kids any time you like. Just go read some of the Yahoo lists.
EDTA doesn't chelate mercury, only lead, so no decent doctor is going to use it.
Posted by: Offit | January 07, 2007 at 09:18 AM
EDTA doesn't chelate mercury, only lead, so no decent doctor is going to use it.
And no decent doctor is going to use chelation of any sort as a remedy for autism... Wait, what was your point again?
Posted by: Infophile | January 07, 2007 at 11:33 AM
Sorry I forgot to sign in last time, Foresam. However, MMR has been blamed for autism. If it IS to blame, and it doesn't contain thimoseral, doesn't that imply thimoseral is not the problem? Or that MMR does not cause autism?
EDTA doesn't chelate mercury, only lead, so no decent doctor is going to use it.
Dammit, I wish I hadn't done chemistry at A Level. Do you know what chelation actually is?
Try visiting
http://www.wellness.demon.co.uk/cheleng.htm#How
http://www.medipharma.no/en/templates/index.asp
http://www.medicardium.com/mercury%20controversy.htm
Perhaps you'd better tell these guys they're talking nonsense about EDTA and mercury. I may think the link between thimoseral, raw mercury and autism is flawed, but EDTA certainly will chelate mercury.
Posted by: Big Al | January 07, 2007 at 11:45 AM
And any other heavy metal, not to mention calcium, magnesium, sodium or others.
Posted by: Big Al | January 07, 2007 at 11:49 AM
Big Al, the new "heavy" metal being blamed is now alluminum.
When I asked someone who claimed alluminum was a heavy metal what planet she was talking about, I received no answer!
Posted by: HCN | January 07, 2007 at 11:59 AM
LOL! Again, the fact that autism bears no resemblance to aluminium (UK spelling) poisoning doesn't matter at all. Ally affects the brain - end of story.
However, aluminium is a heavy metal - compared to lithium, beryllium, sodium and magnesium anyway! ;)
Posted by: Big Al | January 07, 2007 at 03:56 PM
LOL! Again, the fact that autism bears no resemblance to aluminium (UK spelling) poisoning doesn't matter at all. Ally affects the brain - end of story.
However, aluminium is a heavy metal - compared to lithium, beryllium, sodium and magnesium anyway! ;)
Posted by: Big Al | January 07, 2007 at 03:56 PM
Dang! Double post virus strikes again!
Posted by: Big Al | January 07, 2007 at 03:56 PM
When I asked someone who claimed alluminum was a heavy metal what planet she was talking about, I received no answer!
In Jupiter it would be a very heavy metal :)
Fore Sam, BTW, realizes that 25 micrograms from the Flu vaccine would not be enough to sustain the autism "epidemic". The epidemic is supposed to have been caused by a dose increase from about 70 micrograms to 180 micrograms. The problem is clear. Why aren't we back at 1970s autism rates?
That's why Fore Sam doesn't say much about the epidemic anymore, but claims that autism started in 1931. He doesn't say it started in 1931 at a prevalence of 1 in 166 but that would be the implication.
Posted by: Joseph | January 09, 2007 at 01:08 PM
Big Al... I even spelled Al wrong in American!
My excuse... I did not use spell check.
Posted by: HCN | January 10, 2007 at 08:58 AM
Perspiration factor low, HCN. Typos I can live with.
Posted by: Big Al | January 12, 2007 at 03:55 AM
(Sorry if typo errors appears, my native language is portuguese)
I am sorry for this man, I have relatives that suffer from autism, and this guy serios don't have a clue about what is the cause of their condition.
I can think about many causes of the growth of autism, not only in US, but over the world.
- We know more now about this condition, and recognize in early stages, with many levels been reported.
- The stereotypes of autistics are falling down and people are more friendly to assuming their child has autism, and so more are declared as so.
- If the kid suffer from a lower kind of autism, the chances that he(or she) live a normal life are big. So there are second generations, and maybe, if autism have a strong genetic cause, other autistics may be born.
This is not a statement, just me playing mind gueses, but I think that my will hurt much less feelings.
Posted by: Porto | January 16, 2007 at 07:44 PM
I think that's more rational suggestion than the untenable mercury links, Porto. I think it quite likely that doctors are now more able to recognise "classic" signs of autism and therefore fix that label on a child. Doctors do seem to love labels.
I sometimes wonder if the apparent (small) rise in CJD is actually due to more doctors being aware of it and testing for it instead of just attributing it to Alzheimers or Parkinson's disease.
Posted by: Big Al | January 17, 2007 at 01:24 AM
I love it when people change the rules to make themselves win! Not. Why can't Kirby just admit defeat? "Oops, I was wrong, but surely we're better off without thimoseral in our vaccines." End of story.
Has anyone ever done research on a link between autism and microwaves? How about autism and women who have previously been on birth control? Autism and dyes in foods? There are SO many senerios...
Posted by: Ree | January 28, 2007 at 09:48 AM