One more thing occurred to me after reading yesterday’s post from The Quackometer - The Society of Homeopaths: Truth Matters – it was a quote from Dr Peter Fisher (who is apparently Brenda’s Homeopath). Fisher was talking about how some homeopaths recommended sugar pills to protect against malaria:
"I'm very angry about it because people are going to get malaria - there is absolutely no reason to think that homeopathy works to prevent malaria and you won't find that in any textbook or journal of homeopathy so people will get malaria, people may even die of malaria if they follow this advice."
Well, of course, we should be grateful that a senior homeopath feels able to say this. But I wondered, how does he know? Seriously, how does he know that homeopathy is no good for malaria? What method is he applying to determine that homeopathy is no good for malaria?
Now, I know what method I apply to determine that homeopathy is no good for malaria. I consider homeopathy’s total implausibility, plus the knowledge that Hahnemann simply made the whole thing up, and combine that with the fact that homeopathy always fails well run trials such as these 110 trials that homeopathy failed – and I determine homeopathy doesn’t work. But the conclusion I come to from this is that homeopathy is no good for anything.
But Fisher presumably thinks homeopathy works for something. Certainly, The Queen’s homeopath should believe the stuff works for something, wouldn’t you think? For example, homeopathy is supposed to work for anything from allergies to rheumatoid arthritis. So what consistent method is he applying to evaluate homeopathy, where the conclusion is that homeopathy works for (say) allergies , but that it is no good for malaria? Has he run tests? Tests where homeopathy succeeds with allergies but fails with malaria? And where can we read about these tests? Because they must exist, right? Otherwise, how does he know?
Edited to add: And remember, Hahnemann’s belief that like cures like started after he discovered that taking quinine to treat malaria produced the same symptoms in a healthy person as malaria itself. It’s from this that he drew up the Law of Similars. In other words, homeopathy started with the principle that homeopathic quinine should prevent and/or cure malaria. So if homeopathy works for anything it should work for malaria, wouldn’t you think? So what does Fisher know that Hahnemann didn’t, and how does he know it?
The alternative is that Fisher knows homeopathy is nothing but a placebo, and that a placebo isn’t good enough to prevent malaria.
Can that really be what he means? Inquiring minds want to know.
The same way he *knows* that God exists, and is going to smite you for your insolence...
Posted by: Paul | October 31, 2007 at 06:18 AM
He was pretty clear about it. It's because "no textbook" of homeopathy says it will.
Posted by: Joseph | October 31, 2007 at 07:34 AM
it might not be as logically inconsistent as it seems. is there a tradition of preventative homeopathy? homeopathy is supposed to cure conditions through treatments which, in larger doses, would cause the same symptoms; if you haven't got malaria then you'd have no malarial symptoms as a foundation for the choice of treatment...
not defending fisher, btw, just sayin that this particular claim need not be seen as indicating the kind of double-standards of which he stands accused.
Posted by: outeast | October 31, 2007 at 08:34 AM
I think he knows for certain that homeopathy is good for nothing except his bank balance. But he isn't going to say that, is he?
Of course, all "classical" homeopathists know you can't prevent anything with homeopathy and you can't cure what doesn't exist. Homeopathy, according to these "classical" bods (and if my understanding is correct), can only be used to treat the symptoms of an existing condition - hence the "law" (fantasy) of like treating like!
But wait! All the homeopathy promotional blurb you you read today tells you that it's the evil Big Farmer toxic soups that only treat the symptoms. Homeopathy is gentle and kind and treats the causes not the symptoms and is holistic.... (how that word from the mouths of woos makes me want to vomit uncontrollably).
Anyway, as you well know, homeophantasists can't agree among themselves as to what homeopathy is supposed to be, what it's supposed to do or why.
Back to our man Fisher. He might be a charlatan but he's no fool. While the SoH and its members might make all sorts of magical claims for their water and sugar pills (because they are either thick or fraudsters, or both), at least Fisher is smart enough to know that when someone dies from AIDS or malaria and has been relying on magic water or sugar pills, it will be a little difficult to defend - at least from a PR point of view. It wouldn't look to good if they blamed the AIDS or malaria victim as they usually do everyone else, viz:
"He/she didn't follow the instructions to the letter."
Posted by: pv | November 02, 2007 at 07:41 AM
Classic paradox: the dividing line between "good" idiocy and "bad" idiocy is only justifiable if you don't believe in said idiocy.
Posted by: Lifewish | November 03, 2007 at 04:22 AM
Outeast:
Regarding whether homeopathy “should” be suitable as a prophylactic for malaria:
Hahnemann’s belief that like cures like started after he discovered that taking quinine to treat malaria produced the same symptoms as malaria itself. It’s from this that he drew up the Law of Similars. So if homeopathy works for anything it should work for malaria, wouldn’t you think?
Posted by: Skeptico | November 03, 2007 at 04:07 PM
But the conclusion I come to from this is that homeopathy is no good for anything.
How can that be? Homeopathy is obviously highly beneficial - for homeopaths. Not only do they get to make a decent living without the possible downsides of practicing actual medicine, they get the social respect of being members of an (allegedly) professional field. They also act as financial recyclers - taking money from the gullible and stupid and redistributing it into the hands of people with more financial acumen.*
Of course homeopathy may be damaging to science and may help foster stupidity and gullibility in those who are already predisposed in that direction. But it's certainly good for someone.
mjr.
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(*I am not sure it's accurate to assume that con-men are good with money, but they're less likely to fall prey to other con-men, at least. Anyone who can sell water for so much clearly has mastered the dictum "buy low, sell high")
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | November 04, 2007 at 05:13 AM
I think this is an excellent point and one that I hope Peter Fisher - who seems from his writings/interviews to be a personable sort of chap - will address at some point. I suspect it's because he knows homeopathy is only good for self-limiting conditions. But alas he's not bright enough to comprehend that that is because *anything* works for self-limiting conditions on account of their self-limitation.
Posted by: MJ Simpson | November 18, 2007 at 07:58 AM